Transcript

Sweet Mickey Mouse, Shirley Temple, and dear Jackie Cooper. Let's go to the movies. Let's go see the stars. We just got back from the movie Daisies from 1966. And we got Ivy Wolk on the Zoom call here. How's it going, Ivy? Hello. Hi. Yeah, we saw Daisies at Braindead Studios in Fairfax in Los Angeles. Cute little place, cute little ting. Yeah, who is this movie? I can't pronounce the name of the director of this film. It's like Vera something. It's by Vera Chitalova. I don't know. She's from the Czech Republic, so is the film. Yeah, Czech people want to check us on this. Oh, yeah, yeah. Look at that. That was nice. That was nice. Yeah. So I think this is going to be kind of a hard movie to talk about because there's not really... It's not really linear. I don't know. It's not really... I haven't seen anything really that much like it. It was pretty unique. So what did we all think of the movie? I understand it's kind of hard to decide what we... It's more of a message than a plot-driven movie. So it might be hard to talk about, but what did we all think of the movie? I thought it was fun. I was definitely entertained, if not a little confused, but I guess I didn't... I'd heard so much about this movie, but sort of in a roundabout way where the content of the film had not really been described to me, but it was more so the feeling that it gave.

People that I know or like the sort of legacy that it's had or the impact that it's had on like filmmakers that I know. So I was like, I went in expecting something completely different. I went in expecting a linear story. And it's just not that at all. And it's really just kind of like a collection of vignettes with like different colors and sounds. And it's basically the whole movie if you have not seen Daisies to anybody viewing this is it's just two girls like kind of just being nasty and binge eating and getting drunk and stealing people's money and causing a ruckus and stepping on things that with their nice shoes on. Yeah, yeah, that's honestly a great way to put it. I like I feel like the main thing like I took away from it was like I really liked, you know, like the way it was shot and everything like I thought that was really cool like kind of how like, then it would be like they do something and then it'd be like flash flash flash like a bunch of that. Like there's like a bunch of cool shots there. Like I mean like it's I can't really I feel like it's a movie I can't even say if like I liked it or not. Also partly because like I probably didn't like get the message. I don't know like I don't know what she was trying but Vero was trying to like display. I mean maybe it was like a feminist movie. I mean it probably was because it got like banned for feminist propaganda. But yeah, I feel like it was shot really really well. I mean it did give me like a cool feeling like it was definitely a cool movie. What about you Max? Well, after the movie like before we did the podcast I wanted to make sure that I knew enough about the movie because I we couldn't really talk about plot points in it. So I watched like a like a video on it and it basically like the main message was like it kept saying is sloppy ditzy femininity femininity femininity liberation. Yeah, there we go. I got it femininity. They really that's a hard one.

Liberation. So it's kind of like talking about the way that they're eating and they're kind of being nasty. It's kind of like it's breaking the feminism in a way that women don't have to be like, you know, like they don't have to dress like fully pretty. They don't have to like be like in the kitchen or like in the house. They're kind of like it's kind of breaking what women were depicted like in movies and what women were like, what they were trying. Yeah, what women were like at the time. And it got banned for that. So, yes, that's that's one big. But I was there a war going on in Czech or something because there was a lot of war footage in Czech in the Czech Republic. Oh, not very well versed in the Czech Republic. So in the Czech Republic, I actually don't know. Let me I'm actually going to sneaky Google this right quick. Well, we're chat. We're chatting. Czech Republic 60s war. OK, there we go. Let's see. There was a invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968. So two years after the film came out, where 200000 Soviet led troops, including Polish, Hungarian and Bulgarian forces, crushed the Prague Spring, a period of liberalization under Alexander Dubček. So it's based on World War Two. I just looked it up. It's based on World War Two, specifically the U.S. naval footage from the Pacific theater to frame its themes of destruction and chaos. The film uses this imagery to contrast the characters. I'm not going to try to say the rest of it, but it's it's it's it's World War Two. And I think another big thing that I did go some nasty shit did go down for the Czech community.

Okay, yeah. Kind of a double whammy on that one. I mean, I feel like for most of Europe, the 1900s were pretty rough. Yeah, they were rough for sure. Yeah. So I mean, I could see that kind of like if it was like trying to match the theme of the movie because like really it was just like these two girls were just trying to like cause as much chaos as possible. Another thing I saw was that after the movie came out, when they banned it, I'm sure this is probably related to the war that you were talking about, but people were like, there are way bigger things going on in the Czech Republic right now. Like you are banning a film and making a big deal about banning a film when we are like in a war basically. So that was like another big thing why people watched it was like there's way bigger things we got to be worrying about than a film that's pushing the boundaries. So that was another big thing they talked about. Well, I mean, I also feel like back then like, you know, movies actually like movies were getting banned all over the place like movies and books like I feel like it's not so much today because now it's all about like, like even at our school, like they have like a whole like part of the library dedicated to like banned books. Yeah, like that's the whole thing now. But like, you know, back then it was like it was like a thing to ban media. So like I feel like also like anything that wasn't like, you know, perfectly in line could was like, you know, could get banned. True. Yeah, we do have a banned book. This movie apparently was like the sort of first entry into the Czech New Wave movement or like an early entry into the Czech.

which was, I think, if my reading serves me right, was across the board sort of as experimental or similarly experimental to Daisy's. And I liked the style of it. There's a lot of interesting moments that I don't think I've actually seen this used in other filmmaking where there's colored filters over the camera lens. And so there are just entire scenes where it's interstitials between main action where the girls or whatever they're looking at is blue or bright yellow or bright red. And that was curious. And then there's other parts of the movie where they also have these interstitials that are like sort of stop motion collages or like pictures of things flashing by really fast and like arranging in an ornate order. And that was really interesting as well. And I found the sound design that went along with those things to also be really cool. Like you could sort of, when there was pictures going by really fast, you could hear like the papers crunching. And I think like this movie is a total like sensory experience. Like as much as it is like fun and silly and like a romp to watch these two divas just like nasty out. It is also like there are a lot of like, you know, detailed audio components and strange things to look at. And there's a very tactile feel to the whole movie where like you're getting, I mean, even in what they are doing, their very actions, it's like they're digging their bare fucking hands into plates of food and they're like

Covered in sauce and they're like, they've got their feet out and they're just like running around and they're being nasty. She's like, you know, reaching from across the room to put like a spear into a massive fucking jar of like bright green pickles with like, I just, I remember like that neon green water that like, or the brine that the pickles were in. And it's just like this whole movie is like evokes like a real sensory response of just like overwhelmed. Like there's just, there's something happening for all of your senses to sort of contend with. Yeah. I mean, I feel like if I, you know, like I'm not like a connoisseur of like art house niche films, but like if I had to like say like what the perfect like example of a film that's like doing like everything, it's like this where it's like, you know, they're like changing colors. Like it was going from like a purple lens to like yellow, like you said, like, and then like the sound, like it was so detailed. Like, I mean, now that like, even after you say that, like I'm thinking back to it, like it's actually so skillfully crafted like this. It's honestly really, really, really impressive. Like, like I said, like I haven't seen really any movie. Maybe I have that, that like really, you know, kind of seems that similar to this. So, you know, you know, props to Vera and the two girls were also really great actors because, you know, that, that was impressive. Like, you know, I've never really, I don't even know if I've ever seen like a Czech film, but maybe I'm going to watch more now. I don't know if I have either, but maybe I'm just not cognizant. I don't know. I need to like, it made me want to explore Czech cinema. I mean, I feel like this is like a famous place to start. I was reading a lot of reviews on like Letterboxd after we got out of the movie. And this is a pretty popular movie, like very.

I don't know why I had like never gotten around to seeing it. And I didn't expect it to be as wacky as it was because I know that very like sort of normal-ish people that I know really like this movie. Like people that I went to college with who I would consider for all intents and purposes to be pretty risk-averse artistically really fuck with this movie. And so it's interesting that it is actually pretty popular and has lasted in the culture for a long time. Never came across, you know, my desk, but it's a really important movie to a lot of people. A lot of especially women that I know who make movies or aspire to make movies or do photography really revere the images in this movie a lot. And so I think like exploring its impact is also interesting. When something like this, when you watch something like this and it's experimental and there's not so much to deduce from the actual narrative of the thing, it's like can be fun to sort of look at the surrounding conversation around it and see what cultural circumstances made the movie possible, how people care about it and reference it these days. So that's been something that I've been doing a little bit is trying to figure that out. Just like how do people connect with this? I mean, the movie has like 300,000 logs on Letterboxd. Yeah, I saw that. That's a lot. I was like, what in the world? I thought it was going to be like after watching this movie, I didn't check like it on Letterboxd before and afterwards I was like, okay, this can't have more than like 10,000 watches. I was like, you know, this feels like a movie that...

It was like a movie that would be in like Eugene's movie club. I was like, what is happening? Well, he's a big, he loves this one. I talked to him about it. He loves this one. I see all these movies that has like a thousand watches and he's seen all of them. But I was like, what? This has 300,000? I mean, I did not think it was... That's so popular. 300,000. I'm looking at stuff right now like Gangs of New York only has like 700,000. Yeah, so almost as many people have seen Daisies as they've seen Gangs of New York. At least on Letterboxd. I mean, maybe Letterboxd is like people are more... I mean, I feel like this is a movie like if you watch it, you're going to log it kind of because it's like... Yeah, it's a signifier of some sort of taste. I mean, also it kind of brings up the question like can imagery really make a film to me? Because I feel like I actually really like this. James, I have to say that you did lean over to me many times saying this is the longest movie I've ever seen in my life. It was long. It was the longest hour and 14 minute movie ever. It was only an hour and 14 minutes? I know, it felt like two and a half hours. It was crazy. It was really long. I walked in, I walked in the movie, I was like, I'm so ready. This is hour and 14 minutes. I'm so excited. And then it literally felt like the movie went on infinitely. It felt really long. It felt really long. But it's because they're holding on these girls doing this shit for like 10 minutes each scene. Like everything is... I mean, that last like montage where they're just like binge eating all the food at that banquet hall. That's 20 minutes of the movie. Yeah, that's where I've done. It's just them chewing. It's just chewing. It's like it did feel really long because also it's probably it's like there's not...

A whole lot going on. Probably 20 to 30 minutes of the movie is them eating with some rich guy and then leaving him on the train. They do that over and over again. You also can't tell where you are, how far you've gotten into the movie, because there's no arc at all of anybody. You could be plopped in anywhere and I wouldn't know what act we were in. Because there are no acts. It's like a music video. It's like a really long music video. And the music is also creating a tense atmosphere. It's like thriller music as well. Yeah, the music is very tense and then the action on screen is so ridiculous and funny. I mean, I just like that whole scene where they're like on the phone with the guy that they're like sort of using for free dinner and he's talking about how much he loves her. And what I loved is that the girls are sort of just like girl one and girl two. They all go by fake names. And so you hear them being called by men, fake names, like different names based on whatever man is like hollering at them. And I thought that was funny because it's like they're just being fake and they're just like, I'm trying to get a free dinner. I don't want no scrubs, which I thought was funny. But this guy is like on the phone and he's like, I love you so much. Like, I miss you so bad. I need you. And she and the other girl are just like eating like phallic shaped foods and like cutting them with like knives and scissors until it devolves where they're like slicing eggs and then she tries to cut the other girl's toe off. It's a bit disgusting. This guy is still on the phone monologuing being like, I love you. I need you. I thought that was really funny. I thought it's heavy handed because it's like, okay, obviously you're like, this guy's being annoying. And then at the same time on screen, you're like taking scissors to like seven different penile shaped foods.

I guess maybe in 1966 in the Czech Republic that was not so overt, maybe. I don't know. Maybe that wasn't so heavy-handed. Maybe everybody was like, ooh, do you think? Even though we know. I definitely feel there was almost for me too much going on on screen. I remember when they did blackface. I was just like, what is happening? I was like, why are we doing this? I think the blackface moment is meant to be like, because they're coming out of the train tunnel because they chased the train down the tunnel. I thought of it as maybe like exhaust. That's what I thought too. But in the next scene, they're like violently eating watermelon. So I was like, is there like a connection between these two things? I thought about that too. Yeah. But there's too much. I mean, but back then, was it that big of a stereotype, like watermelon? I know blackface was around. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering too because I do wonder if that was maybe American stereotype that they would not have been privy to. It might have truly just been a coincidence where it's just like a bad, one naughty looking image that they didn't mean to be naughty next to another naughty looking image that they didn't mean to be naughty in a whole film of purposefully naughty looking images. That's sort of funny and ironic. Yeah. That's the case. I see that. I definitely, I hope it's an accident because it kind of makes me like the movie less if they're making a whole movie about like pushing through boundaries and pushing through stereotypes, but they put a stereotype into their movie. But I don't think that's like 1966. It may have not crossed the seas. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that was a stereotype in the Czech Republic. I feel like they had other problems back then. Yeah. I feel like they weren't on that tip, but I mean, who knows?

I am a deeply historically illiterate person, and so I'm coming to this movie no understanding of the context. I can Wikipedia some shit and read the first line, but it's not permeating my brain whatsoever. So I'm just talking about the movie as I sees it. We're talking about the picture as we sees it. Okay, got it. Yeah. Do you guys like, like for you guys, do you guys like, can a movie with like really great imagery, like can that be like a movie that you really like a lot? Because I feel like it's different for some, like some people need like a story. You're a big Wong Kar Wai fan. A lot of his stuff is imagery. It's like what drives the movie. So you like it? Do you like it? I really like, I mean like for me, imagery is like, like for me, like a film with like really good imagery, like I don't know if you guys seen the movie 2046. It's Wong Kar Wai film. It's one of my favorite movies ever. And like, I wouldn't say like the plots, it's not like that interesting, but like, it's like the imagery and music is so good. Kind of like, like this film, like, you know, it's like what's on screen. It's like the imagery is like so powerful that it's like, it's just as interesting as like a film with like a really good plot. Like for me, like that's probably the most important thing in a film. Like if there's a good imagery, I could really like it no matter what. I think for me, it depends. There, I think I tend to be in movies that really inspire me because I think I'm sort of a writer first person when I think of movies rather than like in movies that I want to make rather than images. Like I'm not, I'm not such a visually motivated person. So I tend to sort of canonize or like really care about movies with stronger commitments to not even just like linear story ever, but like character and

Seem strong, like communicated seems. But there are movies that I love that are more visually leaning. Like there's this Lynne Ramsey movie called Morvern Caller that I really like. Have you guys seen this movie? This is a really special movie from I think the early 2000s. It's a British movie. It's about a woman who wakes up on Christmas morning and finds out that her boyfriend has committed suicide. And she hacks into his computer and finds out that he had written a manuscript for a novel that he was going to sell to a big publishing house. And she goes in and she edits by his name and puts her name in it. And then she sells the book as him. And then she sells the book that he wrote after he died. And it's like I was the author the whole time. And then just like takes the money and goes on like this horrible vacation with her friend. But the movie is basically like that's like the most of a plot that there is in the film. It is mainly just use of music and images and lighting. And like it's like a real tone piece. Another really great movie for sort of a tone being conveyed through beautiful images is Claire Denis' Beau Travail. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A really interesting and tense and thought provoking movie. But it's really just sort of like moving photography the entire time. Like there's not really much plot movement or story whatsoever. It's sort of just what you have to extract from the beautiful pictures that you're seeing. Yeah, I'll add them to the watch list. Wait, what's the name of the first one again? Morvern Caller. M-O-R-V-E-R-N-C.

A-L-L-A. Thank you. Okay, got it. By Lynn Ramsey. So, yeah, I don't know. I think a lot of my favorite movies are definitely story-driven. I also like big movies, too. I'm a fan of big movies, like Blockbuster and stuff, Flex and stuff like that. But, I mean, there are a few movies that I feel like the imagery can do it for me. But honestly, if I'm doing it, I think I have to go in for the full package. It will also be a foreign movie or something. And I'll just sit down and I'll be like, okay, this is the type of movie I'm about to watch. But I don't know. A lot of the movies... I went on a kick where I was watching all the movies that I got on Instagram. And a lot of the movies that people recommend on Instagram are these art house films that are influential, like Solo and stuff like that. You watched Solo. I saw Solo at Braindead when I was 17 with one of my best friends. And we were drunk as a damn skunk and being loud as fuck in the theater, like the two guys from The Muppets that sit in the balcony and are like, what the hell? And it was really fun. Solo is... What did you think of it? I think it is a fun movie. It's a good time, especially with the crowd. It's rowdy. It can get rowdy. Well, I remember I was walking in because I had no idea what I was walking into. And the cover of it were just all of these naked people on the ground in a bent over position, in a praying position. And I was like, oh, what am I getting myself into? And then I... Honestly, I don't know if I watched the right version because there were a bunch of people talking over the movie. Are there people talking over the movie usually?

There's like some dialogue overlaid with the scenery, but like, I think I haven't seen it in so many years. I think I watched someone talking about the movie over the movie. Because I have this app called Plex that like gives me all the movies for free. So, and like sometimes... Yeah, but we were trying to rewatch 21 Jump Street. And then instead of 21 Jump Street, the first scene was a woman like committing suicide in like a super somber way. Yeah, I know. It just fully messes up the movies. Yeah, that's not what we were going for at all. I mean, it's kind of funny that you guys bring up Solo because I'd never heard of it until I think yesterday when I saw a video. It was like Christoph Waltz in the Criterion Closet. And like that was his first pick. Right. And I was like, what is this? It's based on a book by Marquis de Sade from like a bajillion gazillion years ago. From before even Daisy's random ass time, long ass time ago. And it's basically a book about like rich people getting a bunch of kids in a house and making them eat dookies, have sex with one another. Yeah, it's like one of the first X-rated movies, right? It gives like a... I'm honestly surprised that, but I guess because conspiracy theorists aren't really like engaging with foreign film or like vintage art or anything. But honestly, I feel like I have not seen enough Epstein files and Salo comparisons in the past month. I mean, it sounds pretty similar. They are pretty similar. It's sort of like Salo is what really crazy people think was happening on the Epstein Island. Which maybe it was. Maybe it was. We won't know. I'm not reading through all of it. I mean, honestly, wait, is this from like, what, like 60s?

60s or 70s, I think. Yeah, I mean, did that movie get banned? Because if Daisy's getting banned out, I would be surprised if this didn't. Yeah, I think so. And it was like X-rated or something like that. Yeah, whereas Daisy's was like an unrated film, I think. I don't know if Sallow was X-rated, actually. I don't know if the X-rating existed at that juncture. Oh, it's R18+. Or does that just mean R? No, because R is 17+. I think in other countries, because the MPAA is an American organization. So I think in whatever the country of origin of Sallow, it's Italian. It's not rated. It's not rated. It's not rated, yeah. Because X was not around until after that. But yeah, it's like, I'm sure that it was banned. It's literally a movie, James, people are eating full on dookie. They eat full on dookie, James. It was banned in New Zealand for 21 years. So from 1976 to 1997, it was banned. Or 1998, wait, 1997 it was banned. That's Two Girls, One Cup. Oh yeah, I don't know anything about that. But honestly, I feel like it's honestly kind of crazy because obviously here in America, you could literally watch anything that you want. But I mean, you hear these stories. I mean, The Catcher in the Rye is still banned in other countries. There's literally so much stuff that I feel like, honestly, I don't know, we may kind of take it for granted.

A lot of other countries, they ban so much. Like, you wouldn't be able to watch, I don't know, Daisies might still be banned in the country. I have no idea. Yeah, yeah. I mean, for sure. Although America is quite nasty and strict, like, there are, I guess, more allowances. Other places are a lot more stringent about what can be consumed, and they really hold grudges, I think. Like, other places, like how you said New Zealand was banned Sallow for that long. Like, other places hold grudges maybe in a way that we don't exactly, but I don't know if there, I'm going to Google this actually, I don't know if any movies are banned in the U.S. Yeah, well, because you can just watch them. I mean, you could also just watch, the internet's unrestricted at some point. Right, yes, yeah. James, you should pitch the book that Sallow is based on to our school library, our banned school library. Maybe we can get it. There have been plenty of films that were banned, but not really anymore. I think Flamingos was banned. They show that in theaters now, though. Yeah, but it was only banned in, okay, it was only banned in one county in Florida. So I think, like, with the U.S., it's sort of regional contingent. Yeah, Florida you hear a lot about schools banning books and stuff. I mean, it makes sense because they're way more, you know, conservative there. But it's also a bit different because, like, also, I mean, you could literally, like, you could, like, go on to internet archives and watch anything. Like, for example, I remember Max and I were watching, like, we were like, oh, Max was like, oh, watch kids today. How did you guys like that? Oh, it's one of the best. Probably like a month ago, but actually, yeah, I liked it. But I didn't know where to watch it, so somehow I ended up on, like, the internet archives and they have everything.

There's a point where it's like, you could just see anything. Are you guys? Oh, wait. I think that me and James had a little bit of a different experience with kids. Like, I feel like a part of me, like, obviously not the rape and the HIV stuff, but a part of me thought it was like, oh, these kids are actually pretty cool. Like, they're like, they skateboard and they break. Yeah, like the whole, the part I liked about it was like, you know, like, I like it, like New York, you know, I don't go there like that often. So it's like, you know, I like movies like in New York. I felt like it was cool. Like, you know, just like kids in a day in New York. But like, also, I'm not like the biggest fan of like, I don't know, like, I feel like a bit of it was like shock value. So like, I don't really. Definitely. I feel like I'm not like the biggest fan of like shock value things. Not because it feels, I mean, it is like a bit maybe low effort, just like do it. But I mean, it was definitely, I liked the way it was shot and everything. But it just made me feel kind of like bad. I like the environment of it, but I didn't like, I'm not gonna, we did watch it again. I fell asleep. I fell asleep during it. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know if it's like, it's not like a movie that I need to like keep coming back to. Like, I don't know. Yeah, Larry Clark is a real, he's a real shocker guy. Yeah. People say he's a pedophile. People say he's a pedophile. It's like, I mean, I think above all else, like he is like an appreciator and sexualizer of like the young male body. And not like as an underage, I guess. But there's been a few of his movies actually that do follow underage people. But even in his other movies that don't, he does seem to have like a, he's horny. He's horny.

He's horny. At the end of the day, Larry Clark, he moves sort of hornily, and it is shocking to the sensibilities. Like, when you watch kids, it is sort of like, am I allowed to be even seeing this? Can I even have this on my computer? I said the same exact thing. That he also directed, where it's like, can I even have this on my fucking computer? But kids is a really, that was a really formative movie. I watched kids when I was like your guys' age, and it really reminded me of the people that I was friends with on like a lesser scale, just because of how they sort of were really attracted to danger and risk, and I felt very innocent at the time. And so I was sort of watching all of my friends, you know, traverse through sex and drug addiction and alcohol and smoking and skateboarding and all of these things. And I felt like that movie illuminated something that I was exactly going through, or similarly to what I was going through. And so it was like a really formative piece for me. But that's also a movie that doesn't really have that much of a plot. It's sort of, it's sort of a tone piece. It's sort of experiential. Like you kind of just follow these people throughout space and time for a little while, while things go wrong and they get rowdier and crazier. Yeah, I mean, it has more of like a plot than like Daisies. Like it's like, it's like she's trying to find him throughout because she has AIDS and she has to let people know that he has AIDS. I was wondering this because you are like one of our first guardians who also grew up in Los Angeles. And you're also probably the closest age to us in part of any of the guardians that we've chosen. When you came

back to LA and stayed for an extended period of time. Wait, where are you staying? Actually, never mind. It's fine. West Hollywood. So, have you noticed any changes in Los Angeles since you've grown up? Yeah, I was just talking about this with somebody last night where I was like, I was driving down Hollywood Boulevard and even that is strangely cleaner and less rowdy and nasty than it was when I was a child. My dad used to live in an apartment building that was occupied by hella squatters. It was unconstructed. The hallways were just cement and scaffolding and plastic tarps. There was sawdust falling down from the ceiling and a lot of his neighbors were homeless people that were squatting and it was really a nasty, nasty living situation. And I'm sure that if I were to find the address to that building, it was right by Hollywood Boulevard, I'm sure if I were to find the address to that building now, it would be exorbitantly expensive to live there and it would probably be a nice place or torn down and turned into something else. So it's just things like that that I noticed where I'm like, just sort of understanding of what kind of demographics of people are going out to certain parties in certain areas, who's getting dressed up to go to the club at a certain hour in a certain part of town and how that's shifted from things I saw looking out the window of my mom's car when I was a child. Yeah, I've definitely observed differences. One thing that I'll say that's really improved awesome style is the buses come a lot faster now. And when I was a kid, we didn't have a car for a while and we would wait

For a really long time for a bus to come, I think somebody told me that the city's putting in like good money to the buses, and so I'm happy about that. But another major bummer about LA that has changed since I was a kid here is that shit doesn't get filmed here anymore. That's true, yeah. I'm watching Entourage. I'm watching Entourage right now, and that's the best. So fucking good. It's so good. So good. It's like all, I mean, I guess I Love LA is shot in LA, but that's like not even like, it doesn't count. It like doesn't even feel like L. They don't have any LA things like Entourage. I mean, it's kind of very true. I mean, I literally, you know, like my dad's an actor and he used to have everything filmed here, and now he's going to Canada and Ireland for four months at a time. So like it's, and like he used to, back like probably in like 2011, he was on a TV show and like, you know, it was like all filmed at Paramount right there, and now not really anymore. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I've been out here for the past few months for a job that was shooting here, but that's like a complete and total rarity. Like I've mostly worked in Atlanta and in New York, even on like indie stuff, but Atlanta is like a big outpost for it. Toronto, people are moving overseas even farther. Like things are being shot in Budapest and Romania and Ireland, and it's strange. It's really strange because I don't know. It's just like so much of our cultural identity. This whole city is sort of built around being the hub for all of it, and that is becoming increasingly expensive and difficult, and nobody can maintain it. And so it's moving outward, and that's sad because like, yeah, I mean, growing up

Here it's like everybody's parents or like all of my parents' friends were people that were like worked in this industry and now largely they like it's really hard. Like my best friend from childhood, like her parents were like fully artists and another best friend of mine, her parents were set decorators and all this stuff. And so people that had these jobs that could sustain themselves in this city now, you gotta, people be moving further out and further out because you can't live like that. You know, one of my best friends, her parents were commercial directors and they had to, commercials like stopped really being filmed here and they had to leave the commercial world after like 20 years and now her mom is studying to be a real estate agent and her dad is becoming a therapist. But right now they're like unemployed students at, you know, 50 something years old because the industry has slowed down here. It's really crazy. It's really crazy. That's been the biggest thing. It doesn't even like, it's kind of like feels counterintuitive that it's like Hollywood is like, it's like Hollywood is like the film industry. I feel like most people who would live like in other places, like if you ask someone in like Florida, like obviously they would still be like, oh yeah, Hollywood is where everything gets filmed. But like if you're living here, obviously like you realize it more. And like also even like, I've noticed that it's like they don't want, obviously they don't want like film crews just like on the street. Yeah. Because like Max and I were like, we were like filming this thing at the Grove and like, you know, like I didn't realize that you can't even like film at the Grove. Yeah. Yeah, they got angry at us there. They're strict. They're getting really strict about it. I don't understand though. Everyone can, everyone does the vlogs there.

I don't understand. What's the difference? But I'm trying to think what even is shot in LA. I know Hacks is shot in LA. That's the only thing I can think of. Oh, The Shards is going to be shot in LA. That's what I'm shooting right now. You're shooting The Shards? Yeah, that's the show that I was just shooting. Oh my God. It's based on the Brady Snell. That was the job that I was just on for the past few months. Yeah, that shot in its entirety in LA. We did a few days in Pomona, but LA, LA pretty much. Is it Max Winkler? I think he directed one of the episodes, but I'm not in that one. Okay, yeah. Well, that's because that was the big thing. That was going to be Ryan Murphy and Max Winkler. Max is producing it. Max, have you read it yet? I'm reading it right now. It's so good. Yeah, I'm reading it. It's so good. It's a really amazing novel. I need to watch it. I remember my friend was listening to it on an audio book to go to bed, and then he started having gay dreams every night because it's so violent. It's not violent. It's just so gay. It's crazy. It's completely and totally. At every turn in that novel, something homosexual is happening. I know, but it's the best. It's so good. It's really good. Have you read other Brady Snell? I will read American Psycho. And Less Than Zero. We have a book together. Oh, yeah, and Less Than Zero. Less Than Zero was my favorite of the two. Yeah, Less Than Zero really changed the work for me. That's an L.A. It kind of feels like The Shards is a love letter to L.A., and Less Than Zero is like, I hate L.A. It's hate mail. Yeah, I agree. Less Than Zero, really influential to me. Just sort of like the angst communicated through that was like really, and there were situations in it that sort of mirrored.

My upbringing here, and I feel like I was always somebody that understood the kind of dark irony of growing up in Los Angeles in a way that I think my peers didn't at that young of an age. And I always felt sort of isolated in that because people wouldn't really understand what I was talking about. Now as adults, I think people understand the types of things that I was trying to communicate about, the kind of psychic torture of growing up here that I didn't have the words for. But I read Berta St. Ellis, and I was like, oh my God, these books have been here all these decades before I was saying these things. And this guy was saying the exact same things and expressing the exact same feelings. And so, yeah, Less Than Zero was a really, really, a really massive one for me. You guys should read my favorite book of his is The Rules of Attraction. It's like, I read that right before I went to a liberal arts college on the East Coast, and I was like, there's no way it's actually like this because the book was written in 1987. It's truly, if you were to give the characters in Rules of Attraction iPhones, it would be a completely up-to-date novel as to how people at these types of colleges move and interact with each other. It's so brilliant. It's so funny. It's so affecting. That's my favorite book of his. I think his best book is this one called Flammarama. It's really laborious, and it takes a long time to read, but that's a New York book. Less Than Zero, Imperial Bedrooms, those are L.A. books. The Shards is an L.A. book. The Informers is an L.A. book. But Rules of Attraction is like New Hampshire. I thought Rules of Attraction took place in Bennington. Wait, was Rules of Attraction not Bennington? Rules of Attraction was, it's based on Bennington. Oh, okay.

What they use is like a non-copyrighted fake school Camden College in New Hampshire. So it's like, but it's supposed to be Bennington. Yeah, I remember I started watching the movie. The movie's really, really, really fun. Yeah, I started watching the movie and I was like, maybe I should start reading the book first. But like, people were kind of like angry at the movie from what I understand. Yeah, they're different. They're different. They were like, a big thing was like, they had a football team at the school. And like, it was like, that's like not at all what like the book is like. I don't know. But yeah, I know that they didn't like that one. I just watched the Less Than Zero movie. I haven't seen that. That one's Robert Downey Jr. It's Robert Downey Jr. And I can't remember. I liked it a lot. Brady Snell has hated it. He hated it. Because it's nothing, it's nothing like the book. It's basically, it's like, very loosely based off of the book. Yeah. Have you guys read anything by Hubert Selby Jr.? I haven't. No, he did like Last Exit to Brooklyn, right? Yeah, and he did like Requiem for a Dream. Right, right, right. And I feel like when I read him, like, it kind of reminds me of Brady Snell Ellis. I mean, it's really just kind of like, you know, a bit like nihilistic, a lot of the stuff. Yeah. Yeah, but, you know, I feel like it's kind of like, I read Less Than Zero just like 10 pages every day before I went to bed. And it was honestly like, it was kind of like crazy because it was like, it was like one of the only books like, you know, I didn't like feel like, oh, I didn't feel like a work to get through that 10 pages you can go to bed. Yeah, it's very, the prose is very sparse. And it's interesting because, I mean, you read American Psycho, it's like he doesn't always write in that voice. Like the very sort of like, I was walked here, and then I was there, and then this is how I felt, and then short sentences.

It is very to the point. Less Than Zero is sort of distinct in that other books of his have shades of it, but American Psycho, I mean, is like chapters on Huey Lewis and the News and Whitney Houston. And it's like, it's really freewielding and like monologuing and soliloquizing and wild. And Glamorama is a book that is like a real stark opposite in terms of how the style in which it's written from Less Than Zero, where it's like, it's really like repetitive and it's very, it's name droppy in the way that he classically is, but it's like really repetitive and really laborious and patience demanding. But it's like, and it's long, it's really dense, but the emotional arcs and heights that that book ramps you up to are like really, really profound. I've read that book twice. It's thoroughly brilliant. It takes a long time to read because it is so repetitive, but I do recommend Glamorama. But Rules of Attraction you should start with because it's a lot easier to read and it's like a funny hangout novel. And it's, that's my favorite book of all time. That's my favorite book of all time is Rules of Attraction. My favorite, I think my favorite one of his is American Psycho. It's also my favorite movie of all time though. So it's such a good movie. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, but I think that might be my favorite. I still have to read Rules of Attraction though. I have it, I bought it. I bought it, so I'm ready to read it. Really good, really good. I really do recommend it. And it's breezy. I've read it, like the second time I read it, I think I read it in like an afternoon. Like it's not that long and it's really easy to understand. And it's really funny. The entire time it's really funny. And it's, yeah, it speaks to like, I think like what you were saying about the movie having like a football team in it and stuff. It's like, the book speaks to a really niche experience of like,

being a liberal arts college student on the East Coast. And I feel like for like the general movie going populace, I guess at the time, they didn't think that most people would understand what that feels like maybe. And so they sort of zoomed out and generalized the experience a little bit. But the book is like really like, I mean, these mofos was taking poetry classes and shit. Like they were like, oh, like I'm so annoyed because this week, like I declared my major was like ceramic sculpting, but I don't know if that's my dream. I think my dream is like modern dance type shit. Like it's just like pretentious art types, like really struggling socially and interpersonally and romantically with one another. But it's so funny. It's so, so funny. And there are passages in Rules of Attraction that genuinely like change my entire life and like how I view myself and view the world. Like it had like a really, I read it at the perfect time and it had a deeply profound effect on me. And I think the earlier you guys read good shit like that, the better. I didn't read Brett until I was like 16 or 17. And I think that I could have understood so much more about myself and had the language to describe my own feelings about my peers and my environment if I had read something like Less Than Zero at an earlier age. So it's good that you guys are hitting the books. Yeah. It's a little hard, honestly. I don't know if I'm a huge reader. I'm not the best reader, but you know, if you find a good one, it's a nice thing to do, even though I just want to scroll. Absolutely. I just want to scroll too, but here's the thing is like kind of buying and reading books is the ultimate scroll because

Literature has been around for literally fucking ever. There are so many books. There's way more books than there are movies, than there are photographs, than there are recorded songs available on Spotify or Apple Music. Books are like so infinite and so old. And so exploring literature can feel like the ultimate scroll because you can just keep going back and back and back and back into time. And there are endless books and endless novels to reference and to have in your arsenal. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, obviously this is kind of like a bad thing, but like it's really something I like doing that actually feels good is like I love buying books and then I never read them. It's like that same with everyone. It's like I want to go out whenever I'm at like Barnes & Noble with my dad, I'm like, you know what, I kind of need a new book. And I know like perfectly that I have like six books next to my bed that I need to read. But I just like to get the book and like seem smart buying like some old novel. I just never read it. Of course, I love it. I love it. I live for it. It's why we live. It's why we're alive. It's why we have any money. It's why we have money to do stupid shit like that to buy a stack of books that will just sit on the end table in perpetuity. But it's perfect. It's amazing because it's scrolling. It's just scrolling. Scrolling, true. Yeah, I think we got to replace. I mean, there's so many apps that already do it, but like they're replacing the reading or the scrolling and reading. It's the attention span thing. I mean, I found reading on my phone, like an e-book on my phone scratches the scrolling itch because I'm on my phone, but I'm reading. True. I actually read articles. I remember I read, I remember like the first article that like I, actually, I don't even read that many articles. I think the only article like that I actually have ever fully read through and like.

was like the Harper's Magazine Gooning article, because so many people were like, this article is great, and it took me so long to get through it, too. I can send you some interesting stuff. That's a long article. I'm going to send you some interesting stuff. Sometimes the New Yorker, New York Magazine will do interesting, weird, kind of true crime adjacent things. I can compile you some things. Yes, please. I want to get more into reading. I bought a brick for my phone. Oh, how has that been? Honestly, I love it. It's so... This is some crazy cat. No, it's not. I have a brick. You know I have it. It's at my house. I love it. Yeah, I know. Whenever I see his phone, he's always unbricked. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. I bet if I show my thing, I'm bricked right now. But honestly, it's gotten to a point where I can't even tell. Yeah, brick for one day and 17 hours. How about that? Whoa! Look at that, James. You were on your phone all day yesterday. I don't know. No, no, I don't know. I don't know. How does it work? It's a physical device? Yeah, so you put it up on your fridge, and basically, I have a thing that automatically bricks it at 10 p.m., so I'm bricked up at 10 p.m., and then I go to school, and I can't do anything about it because I have to go to the physical device and press the thing with my phone to get it undone. Right. And there's only five emergency unbricks that I've used all of them, so I can't use them anymore. Right, right. But it's good. He has a screen cam. Call home on the nurse's phone. I know, exactly. I did get a screen time app, but to get the version where you can't take a break and you can't access your apps, you have to pay for it. Right.

take breaks. But then like now it's actually gotten to a point where it's like normally I would only have to wait six seconds to take a break. But then I think it broke. So now I have to wait like three minutes every time before I take a break. So I have to open the app and wait three minutes. So now it's just like it's so annoying that I just I don't do it anymore. It's a waste of your time. Yeah, I used to have screen time monitors. When I was in high school, my mom put screen time monitors on my phone and computer. And I couldn't stand it. It was terrible. It was disgusting to me. It was it was horrible. I love scrolling. But I'm like optimistic about scrolling. Like I it's admirable that you guys are working to not scroll. But me personally, I'm gonna be over here and I'm gonna be happy and smiling to scroll. Me personally, me personally, but also I'm an adult. Unfortunately, you know what I mean? It's like I don't have to. I'm not I do my little work like I do my little job. But like also, I don't have to like sit in algebra and not scroll reels full blast volume the entire 90 minutes, you know? I'm free. I'm free. My shackles are my shackles are gone. I don't I can. I don't have to be in pre algebra anymore, which I took. I took algebra one four times in a row. Really? Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. Wait, so through until you finish? Until you finished? Basically, I did it. I did it. Eighth grade, summer school, ninth grade summer school. So I did it. I did it like four four times in a row. It is very hard. It is. I don't know, like, I would like to know like, what appears

on your algorithm versus what appears on our algorithm? Like, what is your, like, what do you get? Like a lot, because I feel, I don't know how different our things are. Like, sometimes I see the little likes from you on the bottom of the Instagram thing, but I don't know how similar all of our feeds are. So what is yours like? Primarily, it is, right now, it's a lot of evangelical Christians, because I really find them to be just so funny and stupid. It's like conspiracy theorists, whom I also find to be completely ridiculous. Right now, they're purporting that Selena Gomez and Justin Bieber had a baby when they were a couple, and then they sacrificed, instead of sacrificing that baby to the pedophile Jeffrey Epstein cannibalistic cabal, they sacrificed Selena instead. And so now Selena is a robot in a Selena skin suit, and she has been cloned and turned into a robot, and the Selena that we once knew and loved is dead. So that's what they're- That's something, I mean, people actually believe that. It's kind of crazy. I saw seven videos in a row with that theory, and I was like, you guys have to be kidding me. I agree with you, though. I saw this video where it's like, it was like this couple, and it was like, they were like married, and it was like working out of marriage problems, and it was like that we sleep in separate beds because like, and it was like, I feel uncomfortable, and like they're engaged, and it's like, I feel uncomfortable when I'm close to you. Yes, I get a lot of- It was a healthy thing to do. Yeah, I get a lot of videos like that where it's like Christian couples on podcasts who are like engaged to be married. They're like 20 years old, and they're like, so Kyler, like go ahead and tell everybody like why we are waiting to kiss until we are married for six months. And it's like, this guy's like- Yeah, I just think it's like, I just think it's like opening us up to-

Kissing and stuff, to like be kissing and like even be in the same room. Like every time we hang out, your mom is always there so that she can monitor the situation and make sure that we don't do anything funny or anything fucked up until we get married. It's just like, I get so many videos like that. I get a lot of schizophrenic people. I get a lot of people going through mental terrors, the likes of which I will never experience, but damn, is that fun to watch. The narratives that they could come up with, so creative. I get a lot of like kids vlogging, like weird little kids. That's what I get. I always get this kid. I got this kid who, I mean, I found this kid and he was like, this is like for you. And then it was like dancing to like a, he was like getting sturdy to like a little peep song. And I mean, I see videos like that. It's just like so funny. And like, I get a lot of kid of like white 10 year olds rapping. Yes. Yeah. A lot of that. I got recently like a slew of videos from like a white, like long floppy haired, like nine or 10 year old boy who is just getting into Nirvana, like at this young of an age. And all of his videos are him crying, being like, Kurt Cobain, why did you kill yourself? I just found out about you. It's been like four years. Yeah. Pack it up. It's a real treat. He's like, Kurt Cobain, I refuse to believe that your heart was this heavy when your voice was so beautiful. Love, Alex. These people are going viral. Like, it's obviously like, if you're like a kid and you just want to make, and you can go on Instagram and just start rapping and you could get a million followers. It's amazing. It's never been easier. I saw this kid, he has one video and it was like inventing my own sound. And he was like, and it was like, haters gonna hate, but I'm 10 years old.

I've been inventing my own sound. That's funny. It was like a Mozart piece and then him speaking with autotune. That's funny. He has one video and he has 150,000 followers. A lot of these kids, they all want to be like the MD Foodie Boys, like podcasting. That's what I find sad. Yeah, and there's this Russian guy who has the creepiest face ever and he's playing these songs. I've seen that guy. The kid? Yeah, I've seen that guy too. He's playing these songs in Russian and he has like a million followers now. And his videos are just like horrible quality, him playing the guitar. That just doesn't, I feel like that wouldn't happen. Celebrities get a million followers, not people just posting random videos. But now it can happen to anybody. It can happen to us. It could happen to us. The podcast could go so mega viral. It'd be insane. Mega viral. I mean, there's always a chance if we just started, if we just turned this podcast into some where we just started like saying super horrible things, then it would go viral. Yeah, if we became insane and conservative and started saying, yeah, if we became Matan or if we started saying that Selena Gomez was killed by the pedophile elite and her baby was sacrificed and she was cloned and now she's a robot in a human skin suit, we could skyrocket to the moon. All those videos that I just saw, like I saw literally six in a row the other night of that exact conspiracy theory, all like 50,000 likes or more each. People are in high demand for absolutely bonkers, just reading comprehension on the floor bullshit. So if you guys ever want to make some extra scratch, you know, to get yourselves through college, become internet grifters. You're already better at it. You already know how to use the internet. You already know the tricks of the trade. Just become absolute hacks and monsters and grifters. And you guys will be able to pay for four years of NYU. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because all these people are

Like, that have podcasts, like any podcast that people are clipping and posting on Instagram for the most part, like they're not even real. It's like they bring, there's like an eight-year-old kid who can't even have these opinions for himself at this point. Yeah, I know you're exactly right. And he's reacting to the clip and he's like, so this is what happens when the left sways everything. My GSD nation is that it's so funny. My GSD nation? They're so funny. It's two conservative kids. And I saw this clip of them that was basically like, they were like reacting to the Epstein files. And they were like, I just, I can't believe it. And they're like all on the verge of tears. And there was like, there's just no way that my president would ever do something like this. And everyone's accusing it. They said, then they were like, you know, Epstein is probably Kamala Harris. Oh yeah. And they said this like unironically, like they had these, I don't see how, like, I mean, there's no way an eight-year-old could have real cemented political beliefs. I feel like they're definitely being led astray by an older sibling or somebody that wants to make money. Yeah. I get a lot of like MAGA people on my feed. Like I remember I used to get, do you know this guy? He like, he would always like, he was like, he went viral for like a little while. He was like, he would like cut food and he would be like, yeah, so a woman's not allowed to be president, but she's not allowed to be in my kitchen. And then he's like, yeah, okay, got it. Yeah. You guys know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Just like bullshit clip farming, like doing different algorithmic attention. Cause like videos where people are like eating something or cutting something or putting things in a blender or whatever. Those videos weirdly like hit the algorithm. And so if you're like, I believe that you shouldn't vote, but you're like putting vegetables in a blender and like making a smoothie, the algorithm will make it go platinum. It's crazy. I think.

It's insane. I think I'm gonna say something and then I'm gonna clip it on our Instagram page and we'll see if we do it. So let's see. I'll say the conspiracy theory about Selena Gomez. So I'm gonna clip this. All right. All right. Three. And then I'll react like you guys know what I'm talking about and you believe it. All right. Three, two, one. So you guys heard about this like conspiracy theory. It's one of the ones that I actually believe. It's basically like that Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez had a baby when they were dating, right? So you guys are getting this so far? Yeah. Yeah. So basically what happened was that when they had the baby, they were supposed to give it as like a sacrificial kind of sacrifice to Epstein. But what they did. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They didn't want to give away the baby. So they gave away Selena Gomez to Epstein. And now it's insane. I know. And I know I've heard this. It's yeah, it's actually real. Yeah. Epstein killed Selena Gomez off and sent back a clone of Selena Gomez. So we have now a Selena Gomez on Earth that is not the Selena Gomez. Yeah, I've heard of this. It's actually crazy. I believe this actually. She does look different. Doesn't she? I mean, I've noticed something kind of off. I mean, it's kind of crazy. Like, you know, this is actually one of the crazier things I've seen. Yeah, but it's true. One of the truest things I've seen recently. One of the truest things I've ever seen. Yeah. I'm going to go so far. The most true thing I've ever seen. It's an objective truth. Yeah, exactly. All right, guys, we're going viral. I think the Guardian pod's about to pop up. Yeah, let's go. First viral clip of the Guardian pod. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, we did it. We finally did it. Yeah. We're actually going viral. All right, Ivy, expect your followers to just go on a full on up scale on the chart. Yeah, it's going crazy. It's going crazy. Ivy.

Just to end this off, I just want to ask, do you have any advice for the young filmmakers, writers, aspiring comedians out there? Yes. I think stick to your voice and your vision no matter what. I think the best things are things that really excoriate the human spirit and how you see the world. Don't be afraid to talk about the current moment. Don't be afraid to show the culture that you grew up in through your lens. It is unique. It is special. And it is identifiable. And your voice is always king at the end of the day. And people of our generation, my generation, and your guys' generation, the generation just below mine, people will try to squeeze us out so that old people can retain power for as long as possible. But if they squeeze us out of mainstream industry, we can revitalize a counterculture and we can be the ones that are with it and have our fucking no-dimension brains enough to be fucking punk and cool and make things that feel emotionally and intellectually resonant to us. And we can always do it. We can always do it. Even though there are less opportunities and easy ways in than ever, there will always be a way. There will always be a way. Thank you so much. That's great. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for being our guardian. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. This was so fun. We had a great time. And thank you all for listening. Thank you so much, Ivy. Thank you. Thank you, Ivy.