Transcript

Sweet Mickey Mouse, Shirley Temple, and dear Jackie Cooper. Let's go to the movies. Let's go see the stars. We just got back from seeing the drama, and we got Paul Scheer on the Zoom call here. How's it going, Paul? I'm good. I mean, I got thoughts, but I also want to know if you guys know that we got papped at the AMC Glendale. There was a Discord, like a bunch of, it's this new website called LA Material, which focuses on all these LA issues. It's a very cool website, has a celebrity section in it, and it listed, it said, saw Paul Scheer at the AMC Glendale with his kids taking a picture in front of the drama poster. Really? Oh my gosh. I will send you the thing. Please. I actually think the person who took the picture is the person who wrote the article. Or the little thing. That's crazy. We got to get that. I guess we're your kids now. I guess, yeah. That's it. You guys are my kids. And I also just love the idea that on a Thursday afternoon, I was like, I'm going to take my kids to see the drama. Let's go. I mean, that's crazy. We've gotten that misconception before, but we've never gotten talked about on a forum. I mean, that's it. You guys are now on a Discord forum. You're locked in. I know. But it is, it's like, I imagine, I mean, it's the best case scenario, right? If I am seen with the two of you that they assume that you are my kids, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It gets slippery after that to a certain degree. I know, yeah. It gets weird. Definitely, there's been people who bump into their friends there, and they're like, oh, I didn't know you had kids.

kids and they're like, oh, I'm just taking these two 13 year olds to see a movie. It's always at the Americana AMC. That's always where people run into people for some reason. Yeah, I mean, it's become the new Arclight. I mean, the Arclight, you used to never be able to go there without bumping into people in the lobby. And now AMC Glendale is the way to go. I will say I was surprised, you know, obviously based on the title of the podcast, that at no point no one questioned, should you be seeing this R-rated movie? I thought at a certain point I'd have to be like, yeah, they're with me. I mean, I think that, I mean, honestly, I mean, I've had like some weird experiences where it's like sometimes like they're just completely fine with like a kid walking. You could like, they'll just let me go into rated R movies. But then sometimes they're like, you need to show an ID. Like, are you, do you need to be over 18 or something like that? I think it depends on the employee maybe, but we've never had trouble getting in like with our guardian. Maybe it's just, they think that, I don't know, but we've never had trouble. I mean, yeah, look, I don't know how I feel about that because I feel like that's the number one. I mean, to me, when I was a kid, that was the big obstacle. You couldn't get in unless you had the guardian and these people didn't seem to care. I feel like they probably are more aware if it's like a really sexual movie. Which this kind of was though. I was questioning, I was like, okay. And I kind of, you know, went like this to my eyes because I, you know, I don't know if I should be seeing this. It was the real question. I think, all right, what did we got? What did we all think of the drama? Let's just get our opinions out there. What did we think about it? You guys want to go first? Do you want me? I mean, I'll jump in. Yeah, why don't you go first? Oh, me? Okay. Yeah, you. You know what? I've had, I have mixed feelings about this movie because, you know, I think a big thing with Borgli, is that his name?

Yeah, Borgli is that he has these crazy ideas that are like, they're very like, you know, smart and technical, like dream scenario. But sometimes I don't always feel like he lands the plane on them, which is unfortunate. He does a lot, but on this one, I felt, you know, there were some parts that I felt like a little bit of a poor execution on. But it's definitely an interesting movie. I think, I don't know if I would have liked it. I may have liked it less if I knew the spoiler that was coming up. Also, we're going to talk about the spoiler because it's the entire movie. So if you haven't seen it, I don't know, maybe listen on mute or something. But yeah, I liked it. I liked the idea of it. But there were some parts that I, you know, felt like were a little bit poorly executed. What about you guys? Yeah. Do you want to go, Paul? Yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. This is a movie that stuck with me. And I think I've actually gotten more angry about it as I've sat with it. Because you're right. I don't think that he has the ability to interrogate his ideas as much as it's like, ooh, that's an interesting, like it's, and I think people are going to come out like, isn't that an interesting thought experiment? Like, what would you say if someone that you knew thought that they were, I'll do the spoiler, was going to plan a mass shooting? And I think the answer to that is like, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I think that like, he kind of weighted the wrong thing. Because a rational person, that's the issue that I have is like, I love Force Majeure. And I was thinking about this movie in comparison to Force Majeure, which is like, if you don't know, that's a movie where an avalanche happens to a family on a ski trip. And the husband fucking panics and leaves his wife and kids for dead.

all survive and they have to deal with the fallout of the husband like literally leaving his family to die. And it's such a great thing because it's real stakes and it's really funny. And I think that this movie just didn't have the stakes or even a voice of reason. And I was writing about this on Letterboxd. I was like, well, a voice of reason tells you what to think. I'm like, I don't think so because like Dumb and Dumber, everyone in that movie is in the real world. We understand what the world is and then those characters are funny because they are not real characters in this real world. And then they also are funny just because they're insane. And I feel like this movie, by not having anyone that has a sane opinion, I think it just hurts the overall theory of it. Because it's like you can have a sane opinion and then Robert Pattinson can still go nuts. And I think he is fantastic. And that's where I fall on it too. I'm mixed because there are some directing things I really liked. There's acting that I thought was fantastic. I thought there was some great writing and great characters too. So I'm mad at it because I think it was so close to being something really, really good. But I feel like it just kind of misses. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I feel like my favorite part was definitely the direction. I feel like that was really great. I liked a lot of that aspect of it. But yeah, then again, my major problem is it's like, of course, I thought the performances were really great all around, like Robert Pattinson, like you said. But then the problem is he's playing this character that's like, he's so distraught. And he does a really good job at it. But like you said, I just don't see the stakes to make it make sense. Yeah, because what we're really talking about is a 15 or 16-year-old who had a thought and they're all spiraling out about that. And I said to you guys as we were leaving, I was like, I always have this big belief with myself, which is like, don't judge me for anything.

that I said or did before I'm 25. And that's not because I just like you grow and that's when you make these changes. That's when you have these thoughts. There's so many times I've seen people like, oh, I wanted to drive my car off the road or I wanted to hit that person. But you don't do it, but you've had that thought. And it's like, well, then are we treating everybody like this? And then I'm like, well, what's the point of the movie? Is the point of the movie that we're all fucking flawed narcissists so don't cancel anybody because we're all terrible people? And if that's the point, I don't think that that point was fully realized either. I mean, I don't mind that point that like why cancel anyone because we're all pieces of shit. But I don't think that that's, I don't know. I didn't think that was really there. And I think that that actually is worsened by the fact that Robert Pattinson didn't do anything wrong. Like when they're revealing all the things that they've done wrong, like he did nothing wrong. So that also makes him a tricky character. Like it's funnier if he did something wrong and then, but you did the thing. And then it's at least a funny, I don't know, put some stakes to their relationship too. Yeah. I agree with you on the point. When I was watching it, I had these thoughts like, it was kind of, there was a lot of like a millennial cringe and like Gen Z, like the Gen Z like hysteria and like the wokeness of it. And I think Borgli was trying to like, poke holes and like make fun of it in ways. But I don't feel like that was executed. It felt like they were just like genuinely just cringe in it. And like, but like, I also had this other thought that was like, what would the reaction be if like you like heard that your like, your girlfriend like had a suicide attempt or something? And like, yeah. And like, like tried to shoot herself and like it like didn't work or something. Like, that's like almost on the same stake level. And like ever, like a lot of people like think about that. That's like a thing that a lot of people think about. Especially in high school. Like, right. I mean, like, that's the other thing. It's like high school.

This is the time when you are the most emotionally fragile and exposed and you have these dark thoughts. And I think what's so cool about the movie is they show, yeah, she thought about it and her reasoning for not doing it, like when she said, oh, someone else did it. I actually think that that's like her 15-year-old brain making that justification. Whereas maybe when the real world thing happened, it actually created stakes for her because it became real. And even though it was somebody else, I don't think that she was like, oh, now it just seems boring if I do it. I think, but that's how she justified it to herself because she was like so committed to this persona and then changed. But it was all in secret. It was all, it wasn't like she was a Nazi and then decided not to be a Nazi. It was like, it was just a secret persona that she lived in to help her get through her days. Like who even, like, I guess like there's no way to really know, like maybe she has convinced herself that she would have done it. I mean, she made it sound like she would have done it, but also like maybe, like you said, like I think when someone actually did it, like maybe she kind of woke up like that. It isn't just some like cool, like sort of persona that she could put on. Like it's like, yeah, there's real stakes. And also it's like she was like, you know, doing all this stuff. Like she's like filming herself and like painting her face. And there was this whole kind of like act she was putting on. And like she said, she said that she thinks she was like drawn to kind of like the aesthetics of it. Yeah. It kind of makes sense though, because like everything, like there's going to be like aesthetics of like stuff like that. And, you know, maybe she really was just interested in that. And then she thought, oh, maybe I could do that. Like she just had the intrusive thought, but then clearly she wasn't like a bad person. And she was also like bullied and stuff. She was just trying to like, I think she was just trying to find the crowd. And then eventually she did. She was an activist. Did you guys say, because if not, then I don't know who said it, but I was talking to somebody about it and they were

It was like, I don't think he actually understands school shootings, right? Because it's almost like, everyone's like, oh, it's the third rail of our society. Like he touched it. It's like, I don't think he touched it. If he touched it, it would be like making a movie about that girl planning a high school shooting and then doing it. That would be the touching of it. This is like, this is sort of like, it's like a bad would you rather? Like, you know, like, you know, it's like, that's what it kind of feels like. There's no real, there's no real stakes to it. And if he's making fun of that wokeness, this is what I think I get irritated with is like, I don't know. I feel like wokeness gets lumped together with so many things. And it's like, it's like, oh, well, I don't know. I feel like wokeness is like, if you're gonna take a target, if you're gonna take aim at it, you could do it in such a better way. And you can show these people in a much more interesting light. But I think what you've done is you created these like weird stereotypes. So I don't think that you, I don't think you get either target. I don't think it was like, I didn't walk away going, oh, this generation is kind of fucked because this generation isn't even millennial. I mean, they're 30 year olds, right? And she's a 30 year old, Pattinson's like a 40 year old. So it's like, what are we talking about? These are adults. These are like, they're not even, they're not even young. Like, you know, I don't know what he's attacking here. And honestly, like we're at a point now where it's like, it's, we got way, I mean, obviously we have way bigger issues to worry about than like wokeness. But like, I think we're getting to a point now, like when generation like alpha and like early Z, like getting to a point where like, we're like relapsing into a point that's not woke anymore. And I think that's a more interesting thing to talk about than like poke holes at the like wokeness of it. I think it's a more, you know, a more interesting subject to talk about the relapse.

of this racism that's coming back and things like that. And it's like, that's such a small issue that's all, especially last year, and all those movies have been covered already. And it's like, we get it. Like, it was overkill or whatever. It's like, they're honestly doing too much with it. And I will say too, I don't want to like judge the movie like this, but it is pretty hilarious to me that you're making a movie about a kid who thought they were going to shoot up their school and it's a young black girl. It's like, and I know that they address it like in the movie, like, oh, well, there actually are female shooters. Yeah, but that's not like the, that's not the core demo of what we're talking about here too. So it's also like- School shooter, school shooter. Yeah, it's like, and there was something about it where I was just like, I don't like, I was like, you know, it just is a funny, weird thing in the sense of like, I was like, okay, sure. You know, it just like, but I don't know. I mean, and it's again, it actually, if anything, it actually gave me more sympathy to see her like being like picked on by these like mean white girls in a way. Like, I was like, oh, actually it's like, it actually feels harsher than like, if it was like a nerdy, like a white kid. I don't know. I like, and then I'm like, I'm on her side. I mean, also like, I don't know, like if anyone was like pointed this out, but like, I'm like a little confused at like what he was playing at. Cause like, I'm pretty sure there was like four main like couples in the movie and it was like the parents of Robert Pattinson, Robert Pattinson and Zendaya, Zendaya's parents, and then Alana Hyman, her husband. And so three out of the four couples were like mixed race. And then, and it's like, I just didn't see like what he was playing at. Like, it just felt like, I don't know. It was like weird. Like the whole movie, it just felt kind of weird. And that being said, I laughed a lot. Like, I mean, that-

Both DJs are so funny. And I think that that's the thing. It's like, oh, you can execute really funny stuff. The photographer was great. The dance instructor is great. Like all that stuff. And I was like, and I also think to your point, the other thing that kind of muddies the entire movie is I think what he's playing on is the cold feet that you get the week up to getting married. I don't know if that's, I got married. I didn't have like cold feet like that. It's a very, like, I feel like it's a very movie kind of problem. Like, oh, I'm getting married. Am I marrying the right person? But they were so solid in their foundation. Like I would almost prefer this movie as like a Woody Allen movie or like a Noah Baumbach movie where a character like a Ben Stiller is like, I don't know if this is right. If I were, you know, are we rushing into getting married? And then this comes out and it almost gives them a reason to spiral. But because they were so solid, it felt like, well, do you not even, I don't know. Every relationship that I've been in, if I feel like I know that person, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't like they just met. It was like, and I feel like we didn't know them enough to even buy that reaction. It felt like it was a complete stranger or something like that. You know, that I think was also confusing. So I think he was playing up on like the wedding angle of it. But yeah, there's a lot. To me, it feels like a great pitch. And I feel like I see why everybody wanted to do this movie. I get it. It's like, oh, cool. Yeah. I also think like it would have been a different movie if he didn't cheat after it came out. I felt like it could have been a cooler movie if he cheated, you know, like got cold feet and was like, oh, I can only like make love to one person for the rest of my life. He cheats with his coworker and then he's freaking out. And then he realizes that his girlfriend's done a school shooting. And it's like that. That'd be way more interesting if it was like, oh, now they're on like the same level. Although I think, I don't know.

So they'd be like, oh, great. Maybe it'd be better for them if it was like, I cheated on you, but you planned this whole shooting, even though I think from our point of view, the viewer's point of view, cheating on your wife as a 34-year-old that you're about to get married to is so much worse than having the thought of a shooting. There's no action there. Well, and you know what? I thought they were trying to go for that. I had an issue with the end, which is like, he asks his assistant, who I thought was really great in the film as well. He's like, what's the worst thing that you ever did? And she's like, oh, I cheated on someone. And I think that he internalizes that because he's never done a terrible thing. And when he goes to kiss her like that, I think that's his attempt to do a bad thing to kind of balance the scales. But because he never says that, that to me is a really funny comedic moment, right? Like, you know, he tried, well, why are you mad at me? You did this thing. I was like, well, that's not the same. But no one ever kind of like lays the baseline of that. Like, I think sometimes you would need to say that to make it clear. But it also felt like that moment of the assistant could have been so much funnier if he told her the story and she would have just been like, who cares? And then that almost drove him nuts because it's like for her to say, call the cops. I was like, well, now this whole movie is insane. And like, why is he into her? And I'm like, I don't know. It just felt a little all over the place. Yeah, it just went off the rails there. It needed one person to be like, this doesn't matter, dude. Calm down. It's like it could have been. Also, I would have maybe liked it if it was Alana Himes' boyfriend because then they have like the beef too. Yeah, because Alana Himes' boyfriend was like, I think it was like right after he said it, he was like, do you need me to like, just don't go back to the apartment. Just leave. I can get you like safety. Like Zendaya is like actively planning to like kill him or something. But that wasn't, but that

It was her fantasy, right? Or is that real? Wait, which? Wait, what? When Zendaya is waiting for him on the couch and she sees Robert Pattinson with his best friend, I thought that's her fantasy of what he's out there doing. But it could be real. I thought it was sloppy. I don't know. Because I think the movie does that. It bridges fantasy sequences in real life. But I thought that one actually was confusing because I was like, wait, is that true? And then when he comes home, he's like, oh, I just got you coffee. But then you're like, but is it? And it wasn't done in a way. I think that was sloppy. It could have gone both ways. I mean, I feel like because clearly Alana Haim was like, I mean, her character was the most mad about it. I mean, especially probably because her cousin was a victim, I'm pretty sure. But I think it's so general. It's like of a shooting. But yeah. Yeah. That was, I think, part of the playing to the wokeness part of it. She was also great, though. She was great. But then, yeah, so I feel like it seemed like in that sequence, if it was not a dream, then it would be kind of weird because then the next time we see him, like him and Alana Haim are talking to Robert Pattinson in that room. He's like more of the trying to be like a mediator. So it's a bit weird. Yeah. I just think it's like it to me, I feel like it's a tricky role for Zendaya to play because she is. I actually feel like and I want to say this with the utmost respect. She has to kind of play the straight and narrow role, like because she is the I guess she is the straight person. But it's also hard to make the straight person the person that is the focus of everything, too, because she's like I love her at the scene with the knife and everything like that. But she's like she doesn't really even get a moment to really.

Be like, what the fuck? I mean, she kind of does at the end when it all kind of explodes, when she finally is caught with him cheating. But I feel like, I don't know, I feel like I would like to have seen her. I mean, she's also terrible too. She fires her friend for not talking to her. I think it just wants to do so much stuff. I think that's what it gets to the root of. It's like, you just can't wrap your hands on this. You can't get your hands on this movie in a way where I think everyone will just talk about, it will be the movie where they have that drunken scene where she reveals that she wanted to shoot somebody. And I think that's where it's going to live. The same way that the last movie is like the movie where Nicolas Cage is in everybody's dreams. And the same thing happened with that, where just kind of the third act just kind of gets messy. And it's like, okay, I like the first act of his movies a lot. I just feel like the payoffs and stuff, they start to feel weak. Yeah, I also did not like the ending at all. I thought the ending was like, I felt like the studio must have been, it felt like the studio was like, we can't have the ending you want. Let's end on a high note. It felt like, I don't know, it felt bad. It felt like a realistic ending. I'm going to blame the director one more time. And it's my chance of never working with this person. But I'm saying it was purely financed by like three people. I don't think there's anyone, I don't think A24 is even, I think A24 bought this off a can. And I think this is the version that he wanted to make. I think kudos to A24 for keeping this a secret. Because when you said it to me before we went in, I think it's about a high school shooting. I was like, what? No, I think it's weird. I just didn't believe you. I just was like, this is... Have you guys ever seen, you mentioned you loved Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. And have you ever seen Matt Johnson's other movie, The Dirties? No, I heard it's very good. I couldn't, I just didn't believe you. I just was like, this is... Have you guys ever seen, you mentioned you loved Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. And have you ever seen Matt Johnson's other movie, The Dirties? No, I heard it's very good. I couldn't, I just didn't believe you. I just was like, this is... Have you guys ever seen, you mentioned you loved Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. And have you ever seen Matt Johnson's other movie, The Dirties? No, I heard it's very good.

I haven't seen Elephant, but that's the only movie that I can think of that's actually

like depicting like just like a school shooting happening. So like, I mean, this movie is like, she's not actually like shooting up a school. But like the one thing for me about like school shootings is like, I never really knew like about them happening until I think when I was in like fourth grade, like I was like getting a haircut and then like saw on the news, like about like there was that one like really big one in Texas, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of the first time like I actually like heard about like a school shooting. And then like I remember like I was like talking about it with my parents. And then like when I actually found out about that one, then like I started like to hear about like all the other ones. And it was kind of like, oh, whoa, this is like a really big thing. Like shootings happen all the time. Like I never realized it. And then like I remember like for like probably like a week or two, I was like, I was like scared to go to the mall because I was like, I was like seriously like paranoid about like a school shooting or not a school shooting, just any shooting in public happening. But then like obviously now, not anymore. But like it's kind of weird and pretty horrible to like live in a society where there's always like somewhat of a risk of going out that like there is a possibility that like a shooting could happen. Yeah, it's so many of them. Like not even in schools. Yeah. Yeah. I remember like one of the, like I was pretty aware of like school shootings and like they could happen. Like the first one that like actually kind of like hit me really hard is there's this guy like named Elliot Roger. I don't know if you know. Yeah, you know, do you know who that is? No, no, no. He's like, he was basically like, they claim him to be the incel hero because he's like a misogynistic guy who like basically like he couldn't like get any girlfriends and no girls liked him. So he just went out and just was a mass murderer and killed like all of these women. And I was, and it was crazy. And the reason I...

People were like idolizing him. And I was like, this is crazy. This can't be like, people can't be doing this. I just remember it hitting me super hard when I saw that people were like idolizing a shooter. Yeah, I know that guy. Yeah, he was like an influencer. So he was documenting. He was like on TikTok. So he was basically, I've heard about him. He was like literally like documenting everything like leading up to it. And then he may have been live streaming or like posting like him actually like killing people. I remember he. Yeah, I'm looking at right now. It says a minute before his attack in Toronto, he posted to Facebook, the incel rebellion has begun. Yeah. Oh, I remember all the chads and Stacey's all hail the supreme gentleman, Elliot Roger. God damn. Yeah, that was part of his manifesto. I think I remember reading about that. Another big one that hit me is like when that guy went into the church and shot everyone in the church and then was like, subscribe to PewDiePie. Because I remember I would watch PewDiePie all the time and watch his like gaming videos. And I was like, looked at PewDiePie and I was like, yo, wait, what? Why is this mass shooter saying subscribe to one of my favorite YouTubers? That one hit me pretty hard too. But yeah, it's like, I mean, it's like it's got to a point where at least for me, when I see people like make things about something that's taboo, it almost feels corny to me sometimes. I mean, like when there's obviously something that's good that's made about it. But when someone's like, when someone kills children in a movie, like I don't find that upsetting. I just find it corny that you did it. Yeah, well, I feel like it's like, I feel the way this one dealt with it was like, like edgelordy. Yeah. Like it feels like, oh, but it's like, because it kind of makes you have your like.

I was saying to my wife, I was like, this is a movie for people who are not edgy at all to be like, I just saw this movie and it was really fucking edgy. Like, you know, it's like, because it's like, it's not. And I think that maybe the way I feel about it is, if you're going to touch a subject like that, then say something about that subject. But I also don't think, I almost feel like if this movie is about a different subject, it might have gotten the point out more or something. I don't know. Like, I feel like if you're going to touch a subject like this, maybe the thought is, or at least from, I don't know if I fully believe this, but I'm saying it, that like, you should honor the idea that this is like a bigger deal. Like, I don't know, he threw it away or I guess he just didn't examine the idea. And I think it's like, it's a lack of understanding of it. Not like I wasn't offended by it. I wasn't, but I think, but when you have it there, it feels like, oh, it deserves more than just throwing it out to throw it out. Because then I think it is corny. It's like, it just feels like I'm saying this, you know, it's as offensive or not as offensive, but it's as like, as dumb as like when people make like a joke about, you know, whatever you make, you make any sort of stereotypical joke. It's as, it's as lame as that because like, well, unless you have a point of view, it's just like a dumb, it's just a dumb joke. You're just saying it to be edgy. That's what I kind of felt like it was. It didn't feel like it was more than that. I mean, because everyone was getting so like angry about it, but then they never actually, like you said, like they never went into the actual like idea or anything about what like a school shooting actually is. It was just like, no, there's no way you would do that. Oh, I don't know what to do. Like it would. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's like, there's just something about it that left me wanting. And I think that there's like one or two really good lines in there. I thought the line that stuck with me the most.

is think about how many school shootings, and I'm paraphrasing, like think about how many school shootings there are and how many people came close but didn't actually do it. And I think that that's true. Like I think that that's a true, like really interesting point of view that I never really had before. Like I never really thought about, right? Like how close we all come to something that could be really awful, but people don't do it. And I mean, and in that way, you know, it's the weird thing. It's like, I'm not, like if someone told me this, I wouldn't really, like I talked to somebody today who was like, oh yeah, I was a cutter when I was 12 years old. And I was like, I wasn't like, what? Oh, I can't talk to you. What do you mean? You know, like, you know, it's like, yeah, I don't like I've used as a human being. Like, yeah, we all went through some shit. Like, and that was a person, I don't know. It's just like, I just think it's like, like, I guess the movie would have been way funnier to me if she was schizophrenic. And she was like, oh yeah, when I was a kid, I went to a mental hospital for a while. I had like a schizophrenic breakdown. I'm on medicine now and I'm fine. And you're like, oh shit. Like, wait, what? Like, I mean, it at least gives me the, I'm like, not to say that that's. Some stakes. Yeah, stakes or something. It gives me something to like hold on to. I think that's what I think I keep on coming back to. I think an interesting question, because school shootings is obviously one of the most, you know, taboo things you can talk about in a movie. I remember someone said never make a movie about a school shooting. But do you think that there is anything that is too taboo to take a movie, to make a movie about? Or do you think it's, you know, all on the table? I'm a big believer that if you have the right voice to tackle something, you can tackle anything. And I look at stuff like Borat, Team America, World Police.

Blazing Saddles, like all these movies that people go, you could never make that movie today. Yeah, you could. Blazing Saddles, you could definitely make that movie. It's about racism. And it's like, maybe our culture reacts too quickly to certain things. Like I think that like Paul Thomas Anderson definitely took some of that heat because he was portraying something in licorice pizza at a certain point. And they're like, well, no, but that's not the way it should be. It's like, well, but that's his view. That's a certain time. That's what he's capturing. I think he also hit it. He got it in one battle after another too. I think that people can't sometimes separate like what, like I'm a big believer that, and you guys may hate this movie, but I really liked Eddington. And I was like, Eddington to me is a satire. I'm like, I think it's really, really funny. And I think a lot of people went in there and were like, this is serious shit. Like why are like, and they didn't see the jokes in it. And not to say that you're wrong, but I saw that as a satire, but I also saw people misconstrued it. And I think the issue is not can we not touch it, but how people are going to misconstrue it. I guess that's what you have to do. You have to be open with people saying they're not going to get, some people are going to be like, just take it at face value and never get it. I think so. Like in my mind, it's like, there's nothing you can't touch as long as you are like respectful of it and they attack it the right way. I don't know. I mean, what do you guys think? Yeah. I mean, I definitely see that. But yeah, it makes us, it seems like I don't like when people say like, you could never make this movie today because like, I feel like the whole thing is that like, we've been like progressing as a society and like become like more like positive and like more accepting. And like now we can create more like, I guess the only time that it'd be like, it makes sense like not to make a movie if it was like, like a racist propaganda or like something that was actually like that. But like, yeah.

You actually couldn't make Birth of a Nation now. Yeah, right. But a movie like Four Lions, when that came out, Four Lions is an amazing movie. We got a guy who becomes a suicide bomber. And Homeland is a TV show where you're following a guy who's wrestling with being a suicide bomber. There are these things. It's all just about how you handle it. And I think you can see that in certain stand-up. I always say that you can disagree with Bill Burr, but I think that he does enough work on all of his jokes that even if he has a point of view that you don't agree with, it's comedically sound. And I feel like that's your only obligation is can you stand behind it as not... Somebody said to me one time, you don't want the audience... There's two types of laughs. One type of laugh, I get it, it's funny. And the other type of laugh is with a mouthful of blood. And I always think about that idea, a mouthful of blood being like, oh, you're laughing at the wrong reason. You're laughing at it the wrong way. You are just laughing at the racism of it. Or you're laughing... And that's the dangerous thing. I think culturally, sometimes we have lost that ability to separate. We see everything as black and white, and it's hard sometimes to find nuance. I think comedy is great. To do something well, you have to show a certain side of something. Is Borat an offensive character? I guess you could look at that, or you could say, oh, it's an interesting way of viewing how Americans look at that. Or what is this? I don't know. But I think anything can be offensive because everyone can get offended by something. But I think South Park for many, many years has done an amazing job of being offensive but pointed and funny and stuff like that too. Yeah. I mean, before watching this, I read an article about...

Basically just from like the point of view of a bunch of like Gen Z people that were like actually super mad that they didn't know this movie was about a school shooting before. Yeah, I saw that. So of course, I mean, but of course there's going to be people who are like, we deserve a warning, like stuff like that. Because I wouldn't assume that like there is, of course, like every single movie has like, there's a group of people that has a problem with it. It's just always going to be true kind of. We got yelled at by multiple people when we did an episode of How Did This Get Made and we started talking about snakes. And people were like, I'm allergic, I'm scared of snakes and you guys talking about it like triggered me and you should put warnings about you're talking about snakes on this podcast. I was like, what? Like, you know. I mean, I think you're just starting conflict to start conflict at that point. They obviously don't like the podcast for a different reason. I mean, there's like, there's no way that they get triggered by snakes. They might have a personal problem. This is what I come back to all the time. Like we want trigger warnings on things that we feel like trigger people. But you tell me how many movies have a dead baby in it. Like I feel like 90% of dramas is like, oh, my baby died. Oh, the baby died. Like Hamnet didn't have a thing in there. Oh, and the baby dies. Just make sure that you make sure before you go into Hamnet that you're going to see a baby die. Oh, and then this, you know, it's like we like baby dying is like, I feel like all these emotional dramas like why are they so upset? Because their baby died. Oh, you know, it's like that's a reveal. And that feels so cliche to me. It's like couples can only have a problem because their baby died. Now, I understand that that's a very awful thing and I'm not making fun of that. But it's like, why does that get a weird pass? But if you talk about like, you talk about snakes, I want a trigger warning. You talk about school shooting.

No, I trigger warning, but dead babies, we don't want a trigger warning. I don't know. I just feel like it's like that, and that's like an equal opportunity. I don't know. It's like, and then it's, well, yeah, everything triggers. My favorite joke one time was on the show that I saw where it was like a waiter was taking somebody's order, and the person at the table was like, oh, what do you think is good here? And he's like, why does that help you? I could have completely different tastes than you. If I tell you what I like, it does not mean anything to you. My favorite thing is fish. If you ate fish, what, are you going to eat the fish? And it's like, yeah, it's like, why are we trying to create a baseline of like everyone's the same? It's like it's not, you know, it's like, yeah, we're going to get offended, and I think that that's movies' jobs. Like I watched Team America World Police. I'm like, there's a couple things in there. I'm like, I don't know if that holds up, or I think that's a little offensive, but I'm like, but I can't sit there and complain about it because I think who cares? Like it's like, yeah, that didn't rub me the right way, but that's okay. But, yeah, I mean, with time, everything's going to, you know, feel like that. It was the moment. It was like it's hard to, you know, say something like that. I mean, we did watch Animal House. What did we watch? Yeah, Animal House, yeah. Yeah, we watched Animal House. That didn't hold up. Yeah, no. But it's, you know, it's going to, things are, like as time progresses, things are going to feel like they're too, you know, taboo to talk about. But, like, you're going to, like, the reason, film can also be like in a, you know, informational and like informational entertainment way, like making a movie about Columbine, like Elephant, isn't like off limits. It's not only like a movie for like entertainment, also informing people about this could happen. Like, and not, it shouldn't be like, you know, it shouldn't be off limits to talk about something in your art. Yeah, it shouldn't be off limits. Like, yeah, you know, like, I mean.

The whole point of movies is like to show like, you know, like what happens as a human, like the human condition and all this stuff is done by humans. So it's not like off limits as long as you're not like seriously just trying to make fun of it. And I think that this movie works so much better not knowing the spoiler. Like because when you said it, I was like, oh, and then when it started, I was like, oh, that must have been wrong information. But then because I think it's important for that shock to hit you, right? Like I think that this movie is important. It's important to do that. I think like the same thing for, you know, it's a different experience watching Psycho knowing that Norman Bates is actually acting out as his mother versus watching the movie and seeing that twist. It's the same thing with like Sixth Sense or Darth Vader or whatever you want to call it. Like twists are there for the audience. And I think that when, you know, when they get brought up, you're wrecking a part of the movie. I think this movie is, I think the reviewers and the movie itself did a really good job of hiding the thing because I actually think if I was prepped, I don't know if I would be so psyched to see it. I think I would be rolling my eyes before it. Whereas I was like, oh, this is interesting. And I just didn't feel like it paid off. Like, you know, it wasn't like I wasn't triggered. I wasn't upset. It was just like it just didn't feel like it. I just feel like I think it's important to have those twists. But yeah, I also feel like do something with a twist if you're going to do it. Yeah, I agree. Let's see. When you... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to ask when you were young, did you have like a specific taste or what were some of your favorite movies? Oh, man. Growing up, like I was, I worked at Blockbuster when I was in high school. So like I was a big movie nerd and I had a Laserdisc player, which was like before even a Blu-ray player.

I was like, the Laserdisc player, you have to flip over. It was like a vinyl, like to have an A side and a B side. So like, you know, so yeah, like I think I grew up in this like really amazing time of like cheap comedy. I mean, and I don't know, like I'm going to throw out all things all over the board, but it was like movies like One Crazy Summer with like John Cusack that I thought like really made a dent in my brain. And then, you know, Ferris Bueller's Day Off to like Terminator 2 to like The Last Boy Scout in Lethal Weapon. And, you know, like I was in this era where every weekend I went to the movies and there was something there and it could be as bad as like a Dana Carvey movie. I was like, I like Dana Carvey. I'll go see that movie. I saw everything. And then when I started working in a video store, I would find weird stuff and I'd be like, oh, I love Reservoir Dogs. I'm going to go watch Tim Roth in this movie called Jumping at the Boneyard. And I was like, all right, like, great. I was just like, I would like let it expand my worldview. But where I think I was, this is the biggest turn, I would say. When I saw Welcome to the Dollhouse by like Todd Solins, I was like, this is weird. I don't like it. And it's not funny and it's not good. And then I got involved in like really doing comedy. And then I watch it again. I was like, this movie is genius. It's so funny. It's so good. So I think my taste definitely matured. I think I'm busted and broken as far as like what offends me or what doesn't offend me. As somebody who is one of the co-authors of Little 9-11, which was a sketch that we did on Human Giant where we reenacted 9-11 with little children. You know, and it's just some that could be offensive. But, you know, to others, like we weren't making fun of 9-11. We just, we were in the...

We put together a movie with a bunch of kid actors acting out 9-11. It was all done, I don't know. It wasn't making fun of, but it was more like making fun of the capitalization of that. We definitely push limits, and I don't think that there are things that even now offend me as much as I think now I get more irritated, and I'm more respectful of things. I just feel like I have a lot more patience. I understand now how to make things, and as much as we make fun of stuff on How Did This Get Made, we also salute stuff on Spool. It's like, to me, I think you should always be challenged by movies. I think that you should be okay not to like movies. I used to be like, I like every movie, and now I'm like, I'm okay. I want to have opinions. I want to challenge myself. I want to watch things that I would never really watch, like a movie like Gene Dielman, which was on the BFI top list, and it's a four-hour movie of a woman living in her apartment. It's amazing. I don't think I ever need to see it again, but I don't know. I just feel like I didn't, yeah, I don't know. That's kind of like a bigger answer than what you asked, but yeah, I just loved everything. I had a video store in my house. I would steal DVD cover boxes and just make a video store. I had everything. That's awesome. Yeah, I feel like physical media is taking a comeback in now, I think, at least. Yeah. It's fun. Everything feels so like it's at your fingertips. People, I think, want the physical kind of thing like a DVD now. Well, I think it's like what I miss is when you came

to my apartment in New York or my bedroom when I was a kid, it was like my CDs and my DVDs were prominently displayed. And that was my bookshelf, right? That was like, I am well-read because I love these movies. It defined me. Those are my interests. And it's like, that's what books... I mean, I love reading and I read a lot, but I'm just like... And I had a bookshelf too. But it's like, I don't know why we got rid of that stuff because I love a DVD commentary. I love a bonus feature. I feel like I learned so much from just listening to my favorite people talk about my favorite movies. And that's kind of gone. I love that Phil Lord and Chris Miller have done a director's commentary that you can now bring into the theater. They have this app called Theater Ears, which is really mainly a Spanish translating app. So you put in your AirPods and you can watch any movie at any theater. You just hit the button of what theater you're at and what time you're watching the movie and it syncs up perfectly. And they've done that with their DVD. They've done that with their commentary track. That's cool. That's really cool. I love that. I would go see movies multiple times if that was a part of it. Yeah. But I do feel like I saw something that was like Gen Z is the leading people who go to the theaters. So I feel like it's not fully gone. But I feel like people kind of crave that now since it's all just there. Yeah. My kids are 9 and 11 and we go to movies and they like it. And that's been the greatest trick for me is getting them to like movies because I think for a long time they were like, it's too long. And I was like, no, no, no. And my son, who is 9, turned to me in the middle of Project Hail Mary and was like, this is my favorite movie ever. And I was like, this is awesome.

Like that my kid is seeing a movie that kind of blows his mind. Like, you know, like, what is this? And falls for the traps. Like, I'm in that movie Twisters, like, for a second. And we brought them to go see Twisters. And, you know, it's at the end of the movie. And they're chasing the Twisters down. And everything's happening. And they have this big plan to stop the Twister. And I look over at my son. And he's like, I hope it works. I hope it works. I love that, like, that knowledge. Like, you haven't figured it out. Like, it may not work for you. Like, it may not. You think, oh, the tornado will come through. Like, they could lose. And that, I feel like I love, I love, I don't know. I just love watching movies with them. Because it's also like they're watching it with such unjaded eyes. And I also understand, like, from them, like, what they don't want to see right away. Like, I'm always like, you guys want to go see Elio? And they're like, no, that looks like it sucks. And I was like, okay. And they're like, and I heard it's actually pretty good. And then someone else is like, and I was like, how about this new Super Mario movie? They're like, no, not interested. And yet they love the first one. Like, so it's funny. But then, like, it's funny where, like, the schoolyard even influences and stuff like that, too. I just love seeing what they're into. And I'll go see everything with them. Yeah. I've also noticed, oh, sorry. No, no, you go ahead. Go ahead. I've also noticed that, like, because I've started to go to a lot of, like, older, well, like, not older. Yeah, like revivals. I got all these older movie theaters, you know, like Braindead, Vidiots. Yeah, like movies like Arrow. So, like, yeah, it's always so fun to go, like, to reruns there. But whenever I go to those theaters, it's always packed. Like, it's always full at those theaters. Because, you know, like, at the end of the day, it's like people, like, want to go, like, experience, like, movies that they love that obviously they want to go to the theater. But, you know, there's not always a movie like Mulholland Drive out. So it's like

People will go to the theater. If their favorite movie is showing in a theater that's driving distance away, people want to go there. Because it is, in my opinion, I would say it's somewhat objectively better to watch a movie in the movie theaters. Yeah, no distractions are allowed. Yeah, I totally agree. I brought my kids to go see Goonies, which is a movie I grew up, I love Goonies, and I know it hits different for different people. And that's a big part of my role as a parent, which is like, I'm not trying to force my kids into anything. If I like Star Trek, I'm not going to try to make my kids like Star Trek. I don't want my choice of films to be like a punishment, right? So I try very hard to be like, what will we like together? And then I'll try different things, and we'll see. But I really wanted to show them Goonies, and I brought them to Vidiots, and it was sold out. And the movie just crushes in a theater. And what was so fun was, it's everybody in there is like my age. They've already seen it, but my kids were like my age when I saw it originally. And they started laughing at these jokes, and their young laughter almost spread like wildfire through the crowd because it was like, you could almost hear them hearing these jokes for the first time. And everyone was like, no, it was so cool. What a great way to experience this movie because I think that that's the one thing you can't capture at home. A comedy just never plays as good. To me, Jackass 2 is probably one of the best theater experiences I've ever had because it was just like, everyone was like, whoa, I can't believe I'm watching this. It was like insane. It's fun at home, but it's nothing like what it was like in the theater. Yeah, like when I was watching Friendship, it just felt so good to be in a theater where everyone was laughing, and you could laugh along with them.

And it just, you know, like hits extra hard when you're watching it in a theater. 100%. Yeah. It tells you like what's funny. I think it also helps you like, like it's like when people go, that wasn't funny. It's like, well, did you like, I did this movie called The Gutter that Yasser Lester co-wrote and co-directed. Super funny guy, super great standup. Him and his brother directed it. And it's a really funny movie and it's big and it's bold and it's stupid. And I saw it at South by Southwest and it just like crushed in a way that was just real. Like it wasn't, it wasn't packed with all friends. It's Texas. It's real people. And when I would look at the reviews and be like, oh, it wasn't funny. I was like, well, you may like, I've been in premieres of a comedy that has not been funny. And you're like, oh yeah, it was great. But this crushed. And it's like, and I always feel like, did you watch it with people? Because I think that's an important part of it. It may not be your sensibility, but it is funny. You can't just say it's not funny. You know, it's not funny to you. What were your guys' like first movie theater memories? I don't know if you guys have already talked about that, but like. I don't, actually I don't think we have. I don't think, I definitely remember mine. I think like the first movie theater memory I had is watching Moana in theaters with, yeah, that way back then. And I remember about like at the start, there's like a short film with like a volcano or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the, there's that like ukulele song. But then I remember like seriously being like scared of like the lava monster. Like I was like actually, I was like genuinely like emotionally like, that was like the first time I remember like actually feeling like emotion for a film. Like that lava monster was like very scary. Oh, I love that. I, yeah, I think my first movie experience I remember is I went to go see Ghostbusters like in the theater, like the revival of it. Oh, fun. And I remember in like the.

One of the first scenes, I can't remember what happened, but I got so scared and I just threw my popcorn up in the air, like straight out of a movie, and it landed on everybody. And my parents were so embarrassed because everyone was so annoyed because I got the large bucket and it just went everywhere the moment I got scared. But that's my first one that I remember. I love that. But yeah, I feel like those are more like, I can remember that more than the first movie I watched because it's an experience. You have to actually go there and experience it rather than just at home streaming it. The first movie I watched, I don't remember what it was, but all I know is that I probably watched, or no, I do. It was Kiki's Delivery Service, I think. Okay. Because my parents just had that on DVD, and I probably watched that movie every day from the age of two to three. Well, I think that the cool thing, there's something really interesting too. You guys came up in a time where there just are a lot more movies for kids, like when you were kids. When I was a kid, it was like you would get one every four months. So then you were forced to, not forced, but I was just watching straight up PG movies that were just not made for kids. I'm just watching Burt Reynolds in a movie or something weird. I'm like, something I had no connection to. And then every now and then I'd be like, oh my God, the two Corys are in a movie? This is going to be the fucking best. Because a Disney movie didn't come out with any kind of regularity, and when they were, I was like, I don't know. They didn't seem as, it wasn't like cool like Pixar. So I just remember I saw so many shitty things, but the one memory I do have is it was always scary to me because at the movie theater in my neighborhood, my gym teacher worked there, or I guess the manager or something. So I was always going to the movie theater and seeing my gym teacher.

teacher there was like a very daunting experience. I mean yeah whenever we said we saw our teacher like walking in like to before we went to go see like to meet you in front of the theater we saw our teacher at the Americana. Yeah. It was so weird. It was very uncomfortable. Yeah it is yeah it's and they're like with their husband and they're like weird. That is yeah it's always just weird like to yeah to see like a teacher in public. I once got I got online at the Arclight and I stood behind my therapist and she turned around she's like oh hi. I'm not supposed to see you out in the real world. That's like like in Curb Your Enthusiasm when when Larry's therapist or like couple's therapist is the wife of one of the writers on Seinfeld so he has to go out to dinner with his therapist. Yeah yeah yeah. It's so you know best but um I think this would have been a funnier Curb episode uh the drama right yeah Larry like like Larry reacting to this and then people like and that's the thing about Larry is like he's the odd man out like if Robert Pattinson was the the one person maybe he like and then maybe like Alana Hayne was the only other person that reacted that same way and they hooked up because they both reacted crazily to the thing I was like I could see that like I don't know but I kept on thinking it should have been a Curb episode like I could see it as a funnier Curb. True true yeah actually that would have probably hit harder um yeah I think I think just to end this off do you have any advice to any young filmmakers uh or comedians out there? Um my advice is always pretty boring but I think it's the truest thing I can say which is um find like-minded people that build you up and are down to make stuff with you because

We live in a business that it's so hard to get stuff made. And yes, there's so much stuff you can make yourself, and that's amazing. So just make the stuff. Other stuff will come. Don't worry if it's perfect. Don't worry if it's right. Just make stuff, and you'll learn. The first thing that you make is not going to be great. The first sketches I did, the first whatever, it just make shit with people that you like that are not in competition with you, but you are helping them, and they are helping you, because that's the only way you get better is just by making more and more stuff, finding your voice. I'm still finding my voice. I know what I like, but when I wrote my book, I was like, this is something I've never done before. I'm going to do something completely different. And I try to do stuff out of my comfort zone all the time because I think it's important to just kind of continually self-assess. But the people I started off doing comedy with are the same people that I still do stuff with to this day because they're the best. These are my friends, and just make stuff with your friends. Life is short. It's more fun to be working on something with people that you genuinely love because the work is really hard, and you'll never be able to dictate how someone will receive it, so at least you had fun making it. And if you're proud of it, you're successful. Thank you so much, Paul. That's some great advice. Thank you so much for being our guardian. It means so much to us. I was honored. I was honored. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.